Curse

yesitsrob · Mar 30, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

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well, you do have a point - on the other side, its a good self ownage. if you were actually skilled, you could easily beat those. of course, sometimes your build is just designed so you cant possible win, but then you failed at creating a proper, versatile build.

Well, I have beaten them, besides the point really. If people of equal ability run that kind of thing I largely won't. I don't fancy my chances against a version of myself that has infinite energy and a ton of shut down. Even then beating them it takes a while. Soul Reaping abbuse is broken in whatever game type it is. And skilled players do lose to scrubs that do abbuse it. Fact.

As stated before I can't really take TA seriously enough to run "builds" - Don't really feel the need to most the time. I know the crappy glad farming builds I mentioned above could be beaten if I really cared to spec for it and paid attention to what was being run in TA at any given moment. But with the number of skills in the game right now, and the fact that you can only run 32 in TA largely means you won't be able to spec against everything.

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gogo inter dis? ive had hours where ive had a GOOD team every second game there.

Regardless of where you enter from you face people from all over anyway - as it is I'm forced to use Int since most the guild is on Am servers and most on Eu - If you face a good team every other game I really think you have a different idea than me as to what good actually is or simply play at very very different times. I don't find it uncommon to get around 30 wins with RA teams at times.

evil joo · Mar 30, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

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Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Most so called good TA guilds completely blow, if we're being honest. All the TA guilds used to trash talk each other about who was the best, so pathetic. And all the good guilds were all watching from the outside thinking "aw, cute, let them have their fun."

If there was a ladder, people would probably start taking it seriously instead of playing it for shits and giggles. Chances are you'd be far from the best - Let's face it, we've all seen how successful TA guilds have been in GVG, not very, in other words.

I completely agree with you. Ive been in a few TA guilds, and the environment is as you mentioned.

moko · Mar 30, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

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Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Well, I have beaten them, besides the point really.

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Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I've lost to people running 4 necro/rits in there, or 4 paragons...

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If people of equal ability run that kind of thing I largely won't. I don't fancy my chances against a version of myself that has infinite energy and a ton of shut down. Even then beating them it takes a while. Soul Reaping abbuse is broken in whatever game type it is. And skilled players do lose to scrubs that do abbuse it. Fact.

yes, its broken, we all know that, nobody disagrees. skilled players lose..when they CBA wasting 2 minutes playing something totally insane, however, if theyll really want it, they wont lose.

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But with the number of skills in the game right now, and the fact that you can only run 32 in TA largely means you won't be able to spec against everything.

not everything, but at least 90%.

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Regardless of where you enter from you face people from all over anyway

yeah but your going to meet teams from international districts first, if theres none available youll randomly get euro or american ones.

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as it is I'm forced to use Int since most the guild is on Am servers and most on Eu

before you said you havnt even played with your guild in ages and usually just pug. buuuuuut, seeing how i often saw you in inter, i guess your pugging there also.

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If you face a good team every other game I really think you have a different idea than me as to what good actually is or simply play at very very different times. I don't find it uncommon to get around 30 wins with RA teams at times.

its rare, but does happen. for me, good teams are some that can actually last longer than 30 seconds than most euro noobs, maybe score a kill, or even win the game? to put it nicely..some of these are also high ranked guild teams, so yeah..i guess it does happen sometimes.

yesitsrob · Mar 30, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

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before you said you havnt even played with your guild in ages and usually just pug. buuuuuut, seeing how i often saw you in inter, i guess your pugging there also.

Actually I just chill there. Normally after an RA streak, then i'll go leave and stay there afk for about 9 hours. That said I have pugged a little bit. Anyone who pms me knows the chances of me not being afk are pretty slim ^^

Anyway, funnily enough yes I have lost AND beaten scrub builds... why is that so surprising? If I'd only played them once it's a contradiction... but since that kind of build is kind of common it's not.

Dzan · Mar 30, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

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Originally Posted by yesitsrob

1 - Because I do. And on beating SoF. woopidoo, I can't even recall the last time I went into TA with anything serious or wasn't grab 4 and go, in TA I've beaten guilds which are vastly better than we are - and also SoF is more than just 1 guild , I don't recall facing you, ever. On top of that, winning at TA is barely based on skill. I've lost to people running 4 necro/rits in there, or 4 paragons... they weren't skilled, that's for sure.

I wasn't bragging about beating you, I just find it funny that you claim to know what "good guilds" think about TA. I know plenty of top 50 gvg guilds who enjoy TA and play "real builds" and take it seriously. Don't project your attitudes towards it onto other people.

yesitsrob · Mar 30, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

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Originally Posted by Dzan

I wasn't bragging about beating you, I just find it funny that you claim to know what "good guilds" think about TA. I know plenty of top 50 gvg guilds who enjoy TA and play "real builds" and take it seriously. Don't project your attitudes towards it onto other people.

I wasn't talking about what they think about TA - I said "TA Guilds". And obviously not all of them, I just see and hear a lot of comments getting thrown around about some TA guilds acting very arrogant when all they do is TA (mainly in IRC) - maybe I'm showing a bit of a dislike to some TA guilds here because I feel a vast majority of them have a pretty bad attitude, few times I've been in an RA team that get beat by a TA guild and they talk in Local chat like they are some serious business. Maybe my comment was too broad though, sorry.

With TA I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it can be great fun, as of recent it sees more gimmicks than Heroes Ascent.

Divineshadows · Mar 30, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

PvP guilds in general have a higher mortality rate. Here are my thoughts on the subject of PvP guilds and how TA relates to them:

- A PvP guild that focuses solely on the TA format of PvP is much more likely to become unstable even quicker than other PvP guilds. At their core, guilds need GvG and/or HA mainly because the players themselves have the need to feel visibly recognized. Team Arenas does not fill this "need".

- Some guilds that participate in GvG and/or HA have players that enjoy playing in TA and approach TA competitively with builds specifically for TA and keep track of the TA metagame on some level. Some guilds play TA merely to practice a part of their GvG build (a 4-person split). And still other PvP guilds refrain from playing TA at all or approach it without any level of competition or practice on the mind and only enter TA to kill time.

- A ladder for TA would do a lot for increasing the viability (staying power) of guilds that focus solely on TA. For such a ladder system to work for TA, the first thing that would have to change is the removal of the injection of RA teams into TA.

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Originally Posted by yesitsrob

With TA I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it can be great fun

The mixed feelings I've had with TA stem from the fluctuating levels of competition that occur there. At times, the competition is good. I've never experienced half the matches being good as Mokone mentions (30 to 35% is probably the highest rate I've ever experienced in the past 15 months). Of course, I've also experienced rates of about only 5% or less of the matches being competitive (i.e. good).

I would hope that everyone can recognize that competition levels in TA fluctuate wildly. I think that a lot of fluctuation has to do with how many quality teams are being formed in TA districts. The less quality teams entering TA, the longer the RA injected teams get to remain in TA (as they often end up facing other RA injected teams). The more quality TA teams entering TA, the less time RA injected teams spend in TA.

Legendary Shiz · Mar 30, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

TA was some of the funnest times I've had in this game, and most of my favorite memories came from TA guilds.

And Rob, come on you couldn't have been serious about the top guilds laughing at the TA guilds. I've seen plenty of top 50, heck top 5 guilds in TA and beaten them none the less. I've been beaten by them as well. A lot of guilds had the attitude you did and every time me and my guildies saw them we would wipe them, or at the very least it would be a good match.

I can agree that most of TA is trash, and most of the old TA guilds have broken up or went into different directions. I see plenty of my old TA buddies in top 100 and top 50 guilds, or rocking up halls. So IMO TA is probably the best place to learn the mechanics of the game, and to learn to work with other and how builds work together in a team flow.

urania · Mar 31, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

i've been TAing for about 9 months now and in that time i've actually only been in one real TA guild...rest of the times i was guildless.

my best memories come from the time i was in that one guild. it was fun and relaxed, even though there were only 3 of us :P.
I don't think one should join a guild, be it TA or gvg oriented, merely for glad point farming. if u will, u'll end up disbanding sooner or later.
one should join guilds just for the sake of being with friends...and then decide where one will play most.
the guild i'm in atm can't compare with the fun time in that small guild.
i don't like seen TA guilds being flamed like this...cause they're just like any other guild imo.
join a guild with ppl u barely know...expect to leave in next few days/weeks.
join a guild with good friends in...expect to stay for a long time.

Milady · Apr 02, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I commend Shiz and Karla for their posts and couldn't agree more.
But to put it down simply, there shouldn't be a so-called "TA Guild" at all, you can say it's more like a "Gladiator Guild" since all members are glad ranked and you see their tags flaunting around team arenas.

But a guild should be formed with a bunch of people who love playing WHATEVER together. And this doesn't limit them on the arenas, if you put a limit on a guild, then it surely will never grow and eventually disband like the other guilds i know. Nuff said. =)

Legendary Shiz · Apr 03, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I don't think ANY guild really limits them self to one thing. When somebody says a TA guild, I see that as people that TA a lot together. Doesn't mean they dont HA or GvG but their specialty is TA. Same for GvG guilds, you see them HA around quite a bit, and the HA guilds GvG a bit just the same.

Absum · Apr 04, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Wow... the trolls really jumped on this one. I won't mention name(s) :P

I'm not sure what's so hard to figure out about the nature of a TA guild, but I'm glad to reiterate. TA guilds are usually a small group of people that enjoy the arena play style. They spend most of the time coming up with different builds to play, hope to beat their longest streak, and try to be dominant among their rival TA counterparts.

For those of you that felt such an incredible urge to start flaming the idea of a TA guild in this thread: no one cares what you think. Everyone has their own interests to pursue, this one in particular doesn't warrant any more ridicule than the next one. Try being more constructive with your criticism, aka: you should probably just stfu.

Foe · Apr 06, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

in a nutshell there a quite a few who have spent alot of time in other areas of pvp who get destroyed when they head to ta, so they bash it, pay them no heed. TA is fantastic place to learn the game as long as ur prepared to get beaten very badly. For the most part its pure pvp, not much going on but player vs player. The winds of change are kinda blowing atm...take your guild in there and see what develops over the next week or 2 and steal the builds that interest you. Take 2 thumpers and a broadhead arrow ranger, really really easy to run and you will get a few wins vs pugs just looking to fill their group out. O yeah, have your guildies turn off local chat while you are getting your feet wet. Pay close attention to how teams beat you and study those skills. gl

alchohol · Apr 09, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

I started a "TA" guild a while back because I wanted a break from high pressure GVG.

The Guild's taken a while to stabilise because there seem to be many fickle "guild hoppers". We now have some great guys in the guild, and we're having fun creating and testing new builds, and making good friends in the process.

It takes time to create a solid build, and learn to play it well with your guildies (Our testing phase can be an extremely painful time when we can get beaten badly and sometimes suffer the ensuing abuse from heckling foes, but we've learned that's part of the deal). We have a few really good builds going now that have gone through the furnace and are earning us some nice gladiator points. We look forward to meeting some of the really tough teams that are out there.

TA guilds are a nice alternative to GVG, and I would encourage any TA guilds or prospective TA guilds to stick with it. There's a lot more to TA than meets the eye. Getting the highest Gladiator title is not the only goal of a good TA guild.

My ingame name is "K O S M I C" btw and our guild is Oooo Oooo [OOOO]

See you on the battlefield and GL! (A TA Guild Ladder would be nice!)

Hi Scrimbul,

Here are some tips that might help.

Don't set times to play. Just play as much as you can when you have enough of your guild members online. You will soon get an idea of the current builds being played and the dominant ones. This continually evolves over time. What works now may not work in a months time.

Get your whole guild on ventrillo. If people use the "I don't have a mike excuse" pressure them to buy one. Communication is important for many reasons, but it also helps to forge friendships. People who don't talk don't gel. I've found they're usually "loners" not "team people" and don't help the guild. Deal with troublemakers.

Test and create builds until you have one you're happy with . Make this your "official" guild build, and get all the guild to learn to play it. A guild forum helps for posting builds and general info. Make sure the whole guild registers. In the meantime look at creating a secondary build. Just start with two builds that work well, and learn to play them well. If you have too many to begin with it won't help your cause. Master a few first.

Don't allow abuse on the battlefield. Develop good sportsmanship. Win well, lose well. Create a good team atmosphere.

When recruiting, if you regularly play you will be noticed. Make sure people are from the same time zone. If they're from another guild ask why they want to leave. Ask why they want to join you. Make sure they have vent and chat with them and give them a trial run. There are some really disturbed people out there unfortunately, and you have to weed out the "flaky" ones. A manic depressive can take your team down fast!

Gl with your Guild.

Kosmic

urania · Apr 10, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I don't use a mic.

So what? ;p

If one doesn't know what is to be done, not even a mic will save you from losing to a good team.

alchohol · Apr 10, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Well,

There's a thing called tactics, and unless you and your team mates are mind readers you're going to be at a disadvantage.

It's not just bashing buttons...sometimes you have to be able to tell others what's happening...change tactics, targets etc, etc.

Also it helps people on your team who are learning. You gain so much more info when others are able to share at a given moment. I am always learning new things.

More importantly, it helps to forge good friendships with other guild members.

urania · Apr 10, 2007, 03:37 PM // 15:37

i forgot to mention that i'm looking at this from a monk's point of view.
and monks rarely call tactics, afaik.
also, watching the battlefield alone should enable a good player to adjust their own tactics in accordance with their task without needing others to tell them that...unless it's about falling back or calling a target of high priority at a given moment (e.g. target that is on very low health, but yet left alone)

and you can forge good friendships without a mic too

Divineshadows · Apr 10, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

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Originally Posted by urania

i forgot to mention that i'm looking at this from a monk's point of view.
and monks rarely call tactics, afaik.

and you can forge good friendships without a mic too

I often called tactics during TA play. I often played monk in TA. Team arenas is one of the few places where monk players can call tactics without it being too overwhelming.

A monk without a microphone has to communicate dazed and key hexes by ctrl+clicking on them. When I play a non-monk role, I rarely pay attention to the text box that would contain that information since I am so used to having this type of information communicated to me over a microphone. I think most players are used to (i.e. spoiled) this form of communication.

What type of system would you use to communicate that you are getting knocked down a lot as a monk to your teammates without using a microphone?

urania · Apr 10, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

maybe by watching the battlefield?

it shouldn't be too hard to locate and prevent that from happening (either killing wanderlust, babysitting the galer, blinding hammer warrs, interruptting spells causing a knockdown (apart from gale)?)

Divineshadows · Apr 10, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

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Originally Posted by urania

maybe by watching the battlefield?

it shouldn't be too hard to locate and prevent that from happening (either killing wanderlust, babysitting the galer, blinding hammer warrs, interruptting spells causing a knockdown (apart from gale)?)

These are all responsibilities that fall on the other 3 players and not the monk. Playing with strong players they typically don't need reminders to play disruptively in that fashion. However, success breeds laziness. During a long TA run (30+ consecutive wins), it is easy for even strong players to get lazy (or tired) and slip up. As a monk with a microphone, you can verbally point out what is giving you problems the moment that you feel your team is getting lazy. Without a microphone, you have to find some other way to communicate this information. By the time the information gets received and processed, your team may or may not have the chance to recover from their previous sloppy play.